Group Read: On Stranger Tides - Spoilers

Well, I haven't actually finished the book yet, but here's a discussion thread for those of you who have! I'll add questions later once I'm done, but everyone else is welcome to kick off the discussion with some questions/thoughts in the meantime :)

I added this thread to the wiki.

Got it starred. Responding to Jim's comments about how they will adapt it, it seems like they've got a strong Orlando Bloom-type character in Jack Shandy, and of course the female lead is clear-cut. I don't see a place for Captain Jack Sparrow, though, because almost all the other main characters end up dead. Of course, this WILL be an adaptation, so he could be a Davies modified role, or a brand new character. He has to be one of those to go into Florida, though. How do you think they'll simplify the plot to fit into movie length and format?

Speaking of this, I didn't realize until several weeks after seeing The King's Speech and loving Geoffrey Rush's character in it, that he was the cursed pirate captain in The Pirates of the Caribbean, where I hated him as thoroughly as I loved him now. Give that man an Oscar!

Davies seems the most Jack Sparrow-esque to me. I insist that they include Mr. Bird; he would fit that movie so perfectly.

Wikipedia claims that the fourth movie will not have Orlando Bloom or Kiera Knightly. The story will be a loose adaptation of the book. They'll introduce Blackbeard and Blackbeard's daughter, who is a former love of Jack Sparrow's. The Fountain of Youth stays, but it's unclear how much else.

On the other hand, if this were the *first* Pirates movie, they'd have perfect characters in Will/Jack, Elizabeth/Beth, and Sparrow/Davies!

I thought perhaps that for the film version 'Jack Shandy' was just going to be renamed 'Jack Sparrow.'

I think that would only work if the movie was a prequel to the others. Which would be a really good idea.

On the non-spoiler thread, Zoe commented on the pacing of the book. One comment was that Jack Shandy "is so distant from everything, just following along with other people's plans rather than having any sort of direct agency in the action". What do you think?

I think this is a classic Tim Powers feel - The Anubis Gates' Brendan Doyle was the same until the end, just like Shandy. Both started as relatively passive, non-heroic heroes pushed into very strange circumstances, who grow into effective people able to accomplish what needs to be done.

Since I have not read many of Powers' books (this makes only the third for me), I cannot speak to it being 'classic' Tim Powers feel, but I agree with you, Jim, about the similarities between Doyle and Shandy.

I'm finally done the book! I think I need to re-watch the Pirates of the Caribbean movies to be able to comment properly on that aspect of the discussion, since it's been a while since I've seen them.

For the rest, I found that even in the end Jack Shandy hadn't grown on me much, while I don't remember having that problem with Brendan Doyle. It particularly bothered me that his relationship to Beth had pretty much no development when they actually spent time together. He was suddenly entirely motivated by the idea of saving and marrying her, and it felt unnatural because we didn't actually see them growing closer.

I loved the setting, but I couldn't help feeling like I might have enjoyed following, say, Blackbeard's story more.

A couple of general questions: Which character did you like most? Which did you think had the most interesting story?

I found myself very attached to Davies, and was upset that his death went almost unremarked (I think that's where Shandy really went downhill in my eyes: he was so focused on his own goal that he didn't do his fair share in the fight, got a good friend killed, and didn't seem to feel any remorse). On the other hand, I think Blackbeard's story was the most interesting; I would have liked to read about his childhood and early study of magic.

I agree with you on Davies. He was by far the most interesting for me. Rather than a stereotypical buccaneer, he had depth and personality. As far as interesting story, I would really have liked to know more about Jack before the book - his upbringing as a puppeteer, his relationship with his father, etc.

Blackbeard *was* interesting and would have made a decent prequel book.

#11: I agree with you Zoe.

#12: I would not mind seeing a Blackbeard prequel book either.

Has anyone read any other books similar to this one? I did really enjoy the setting and the magic system.

I'm planning to read Voodoo Queen: The Spirited Lives of Marie Laveau for TIOLI this month, and I found it interesting to browse the list of books tagged "voodoo".

#14: Afraid I cannot help, Zoe.

One of the Terry Pratchett books has a lot of voodoo in it but no pirates and had the same feeling for me. I think it's Witches Abroad. But obviously that takes place in Discworld and not the real world.

If I recall correctly, Anansi Boys has some voodoo in it as well.

I've only seen the movie, never read the book, but Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil has voodoo and graveyards in it.

The parts of the book about the pirate life reminded me some of Pirates! by Celia Rees. Only not clearly written for preteen girls :-)

(ETA: touchstones!)

Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil was pretty good - better than the movie, IMHO. For something a little different, there's The Serpent and the Rainbow. more of an anthropological and pharmacological study,but still pretty good.

Edited my previous post #16 to include touchstones.

So, from what I've heard of the movie, it seems like it's nothing like the book and not very good either. Has anyone seen it?

I got free tickets to the press screening last Tuesday, but that was the day I left for Prague. Guess which one won out?

I'll probably see it and let you know.

OKokok.

I liked it. OK. I could get into a feminist rant and talk about the fact that the only female characters were either ghosts or sex objects. Come on! Give us something here! If the feminine aspect of magic and voodoo is so powerful, why can't we learn more about it earlier on in the book??

The puppetry theme was amusing, but I think more could have been done with the comparison between puppetry and voodoo, which was present, but not thoroughly explored. I think Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil might get into it. Or some other nonfiction inquiry into voodoo that I read a loooooooong time ago. Can't remember. It will come to me at 3 AM.

What did anyone else think about the quantum/other-dimensional moment at the Fountain of Youth? I know I wanted more of that side of the story, and more moments like it.

Did Tim Powers write ALL of the Pirates of the Carribean movies?

And, I will go to the movie. I won't be able to help myself.

Looking forward to hearing what you all think!

Vivian

He didn't write any of them. They borrowed the title and Blackbeard and the Fountain of Youth from his book for this latest movie, but from what I hear, the plot of the movie bears little resemblance to the book.

Vivian,

If you haven't already, I think you should read The Anubis Gates, also by Tim Powers. I just read it this month and I thought it was great. The plot and tone of the book are similar to On Stranger Tides but it's not about pirates and voodoo (there are gypsies and their magic instead). There's also a stronger female presence (okay, one character).

Yeah, from the preview/reviews, it seems like it's not the same story. But I can see why the Disney franchise picked it up. Lots of scenes with cinematic flair. I wouldn't be surprised if a few odd scenes from the story show up in the movie, beyond the Fountain of Youth.

I really should read The Anubis Gates! norabelle, you are about the third person to recommend it!! Going to dig out my library card now that I'm home!

Can't wait to hear what everyone thinks of the movie!

V